Migrant boat disaster in Greece

[Holly]

Greece boat disaster: Up to 500 people still missing says UN
Up to 500 people are still missing from a migrant boat that sank off Greece, the UN human rights office says.

Large numbers of women and children were among those missing in the "horrific tragedy" that left 78 people dead, said spokesman Jeremy Laurence.

The appalling loss of life underscored the need to bring people smugglers to justice, he added.

OMG, I had the shivers watching the news just earlier.
What a tragic number of human loss.
I'm speechless.

But what I also have noticed, that most people who died where women and children.
Why?
What were the men doing? Watching their wives and children drown? Saving themselves?
I'm appalled.
Why is it, that more often than not, it is men reaching save shores?

I'm glad they are alive, don't get me wrong, every human live is worth saving, but where are their wives and children?

Can any woman here imagine their husbands or partners not trying to save them?
Can any man here imagine watching their wives or partners drown?

Yes of course there are circumstances where you just can't do anything, but in this particular event, most people who died were women and children.

It's tragic, loving fathers would rather save their children's live than their own.

[Cactus Jack]

More victim blaming?

[Holly]

More victim blaming?

Victim blaming my arse.
The victims were the women and children.
WTF is wrong with you?

Are you really that deprived of any compassion for the actual victims?
Most men are alive, don't you get that?

They said on the news that most victims are women and children!!!!!

All the survivors they were showing, were men.

[HobbitFeet]

Maybe because most women and children were below deck

sadly less able to free themselves and survive, we're not talking the titanic here, this ship would have taken minutes to sink, especially as it was so overcrowded

It must have been terrifying but hopefully was mercifully quick

[Holly]

Maybe because most women and children were below deck

sadly less able to free themselves and survive, we're not talking the titanic here, this ship would have taken minutes to sink, especially as it was so overcrowded

It must have been terrifying but hopefully was mercifully quick

Yes, that makes sense, they most definitely were below deck.

[Cactus Jack]

For people who deal with reality:

Generally speaking people below decks would be safer, those on deck would be more exposed to the high heat, the storm swells and so on. That's why in all the war films you see the most vulnerable people are asked to 'go below'.

But let's not both the hate-fuelled RWNJ agenda with any facts.

[Holly]

For people who deal with reality:

Generally speaking people below decks would be safer, those on deck would be more exposed to the high heat, the storm swells and so on. That's why in all the war films you see the most vulnerable people are asked to 'go below'.

WTF are you on about? What does any of this have to do with RWNJ?
You really are a bit confused sometimes, to put it politely.

It makes sense that people below deck are trapped, don't you get that?
Where would they go?
How would they escape?
What are they supposed to do below deck?
The ones on the top can at least jump and swim.
The ones underneath sink and drown, because there is no way out.
Do you understand?

Just use your brain instead of always trying so hard to be right.

[Cactus Jack]

For people in he real world.

Being inside the boat is generally safer.

Being on the deck means you risk being washed overboard, a much greater risk on most journeys.

We now return you to the same old recycled hysterical rantings.

[Holly]

For people in he real world.

Being inside the boat is generally safer.

Being on the deck means you risk being washed overboard, a much greater risk on most journeys.

We now return you to the same old recycled hysterical rantings.

Oh FFS

Pakistanis ‘were forced below deck’ on refugee boat in Greece disaster

Witnesses say some groups were forced into the most hazardous part of the vessel that sank, leaving hundreds feared dead
new accounts from survivors indicate that women and children were forced to travel in the hold, and that certain nationalities were condemned to the most dangerous part of the trawler.

According to leaked testimonies told by survivors to coastguards, Pakistanis were forced below deck, with other nationalities allowed on the top deck, where they had a far greater chance of surviving a capsize.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ ... e-disaster

[Cactus Jack]

I knew you could get there if you tried.

So it wasn't just men and it was the migrants themselves who decided who went were.

Your victim blaming post was wrong.

[Holly]

I knew you could get there if you tried.

So it wasn't just men and it was the migrants themselves who decided who went were.

Your victim blaming post was wrong.

OMG, this is getting ridiculous

It was you who was in the wrong, but admitting you're not always right, doesn't seem to be in your DNA.

You claimed that it's saver below deck, that was obviously not the case in this particular situation.

[Cactus Jack]

You don't have justify yourself in any way, you have proven the hate fuelled assertion by RWNJs that it is the refugees themselves who placed the women and children at risk completely wrong.

I will salute the use of critical thinking and seeking supporting evidence that led you to the conclusion that it is definitively NOT the refugees themselves who were at fault. Your use of evidence and critical thinking has shown the any assertion that it is the refugees themselves who are at fault is entirely wrong.

Fantastic job of proving an RWNJ talking point utterly wrong. And now you have found the evidence that it is entirely wrong for yourself you'll never make that assertion again.

[ArchieG]

For people who deal with reality:

Generally speaking people below decks would be safer, those on deck would be more exposed to the high heat, the storm swells and so on. That's why in all the war films you see the most vulnerable people are asked to 'go below'.

But let's not both the hate-fuelled RWNJ agenda with any facts.

Unfortunately, Mr Jack, this is bollocks. People are sent below in wars because people are shooting. The lesser of 2 evils, or at any rate, the shooting happens before the sinking. Nothing to do with heat (greater shut below inside a tin box with a crowd of heat emitting humans) or storm swell, in the Aegean in Summer, if it wasn’t serious I’d laugh. As to right wing nut jobs, I have no comment to make. The news may be manipulated, sure. Thems the facts about above and below decks, though, old chap. Far more dangerous in a grossly overloaded boat to be inside. The fact that it turned over in relatively calm water is testament to the overloading. The reason people were shepherded below is probably to rectify very obvious stability issues, and crowd crush. As to choosing who went below, I can’t imagine how that could be done. In what we can only assume was an emergency situation, the people nearest the door, surely?

Signed, a professional seafarer.

[common sense]

Talking about 500 dead now. Terrible.

[Cactus Jack]

For people who deal with reality:

Generally speaking people below decks would be safer, those on deck would be more exposed to the high heat, the storm swells and so on. That's why in all the war films you see the most vulnerable people are asked to 'go below'.

But let's not both the hate-fuelled RWNJ agenda with any facts.

Unfortunately, Mr Jack, this is bollocks. People are sent below in wars because people are shooting. The lesser of 2 evils, or at any rate, the shooting happens before the sinking. Nothing to do with heat (greater shut below inside a tin box with a crowd of heat emitting humans) or storm swell, in the Aegean in Summer, if it wasn’t serious I’d laugh. As to right wing nut jobs, I have no comment to make. The news may be manipulated, sure. Thems the facts about above and below decks, though, old chap. Far more dangerous in a grossly overloaded boat to be inside. The fact that it turned over in relatively calm water is testament to the overloading. The reason people were shepherded below is probably to rectify very obvious stability issues, and crowd crush. As to choosing who went below, I can’t imagine how that could be done. In what we can only assume was an emergency situation, the people nearest the door, surely?

Signed, a professional seafarer.

Thanks Archie.

And thanks to Holly's good work we know that it is the people smugglers who decided who to put in greatest danager based on race and gender, the unfortunate passengers on the boat get no say in where they are put.

Looking at it rationally I would guess that in the normal run of events the refugees are going to be exploited by unscrupulous employers, a job made much easier by the cuts made at the Home Office so it would make sense to give those most likely to make most profit for their new employers the best chance of survival.

Do you think if there were safe, legal routes into the country people just seeking to work and make a better life for themselves would go prefer to use those routes and go into legal employment, filling one of the many jobs left unfilled due to the acute skills and labour shortages we're currently experiencing due to Brexit?