A Warning: Beware if asked to 'VERIFY' yourself.

A right load of bollocks...

A Warning: Beware if asked to 'VERIFY' yourself.

Postby Trapper John » Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:36 am

Just a bit of background first.

I kept in touch with an old work colleague who left the company I work for in February. Up until a few weeks ago he hadn't worked since then, but he does now, doing the same job he did before but for a subbie.

Anyway, he's not up to speed with 'technology' so asked me if I would help him with a tax refund notice he'd been sent by HMRC. He said that the money would come in handy as he wasn't working but the letter said that it could take up to 3 months to recieve it, unless he opens what they call a 'Personal Tax Account' in which case he'd get it within 5 working days.

So I went round to help him with what I thought would be an hours excercise at worst. How wrong was I?

I'll relate what happened in the next post but what I will say is that I initially thought his circumstances might be exceptional, but on reflection, it might affect more people than I imagine as the people who might be keen on getting their rebate quicker than normal, are those in excatly his circumstances. :dunno:
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Re: A Warning: Beware if asked to 'VERIFY' yourself.

Postby Vicky » Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:05 am

I don't know what happened with your pal, but a pal of mine got an email last week about a tax refund and was told all he had to do was put his debit card details in to an account, as they didn't have them on file.

Oh and he was told the email address from HMRC couldn't receive replies for security reasons.
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Re: A Warning: Beware if asked to 'VERIFY' yourself.

Postby Trapper John » Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:14 am

So we set up his PTA (personal tax account) no problem, though he didn't have an e-mail account, so we had to do that first.

Anyway, we can now log in, and go through another set of identity questions, wait for a code to be sent to his phone, put that in and we're faced with yet more security questions, which is where it all falls down and goes pear shaped.

You will now be asked 2 questions to confirm your identity, would you prefer them to about your Passport or P60? ..... got a passport? I say, expired years ago is the reply. Got your P60? ... nope. We tell it we have a P60 anyway, just to see if we blunder through.

We can't because it wants to know the exact final earnings figure, pre tax down to the last penny. 'Having problems? .... Yes! .... we get logged out and referred to a problems link, something which is an extremely annoying thing as you have to go through the whole logging in palaver, first set of security questions and wait for a code again, every time you use it.

So I think what to do, then realise he won't have a P60 because he left before the end of the tax year, but his P45 will have the details we want, result! In we log again, and eventually get to the 'Passport or P60' bit - P60 please! ..... the fucking question has changed, it now wants to know how much NI contributions he paid.........something the P45 doesn't show......shit! been logged out again.

I am telling you that I have been at his house on his laptop for about 2 hours now and I got things to do, so tell him I'll have a think and we'll sort it out tomorrow, hoping he'd say oh don't worry I'll wait......he didn't.

Later at home, I do a bit more delving and eventually get to a link which gives me a telephone number, this is after yet at least another hour negotiating the extremely confusing and unhelpful website.

I explain to the guy the situation and he refers me to a link which will verify your identity ..... great we'll do that tomorrow ...... this is where it all went from a laughable farce to something a whole lot more sinister.
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Re: A Warning: Beware if asked to 'VERIFY' yourself.

Postby Trapper John » Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:18 am

Vicky wrote:I don't know what happened with your pal, but a pal of mine got an email last week about a tax refund and was told all he had to do was put his debit card details in to an account, as they didn't have them on file.

Oh and he was told the email address from HMRC couldn't receive replies for security reasons.


One thing that confusing and unhelpful website does tell you is to ignore anything other than snail mail communication from HMRC. Warnings all over the place.

Yet what I'll say next, flies in the face of all that.
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Re: A Warning: Beware if asked to 'VERIFY' yourself.

Postby Trapper John » Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:56 am

So we're at it again next day.

Now if like me, you have never heard of 'VERIFY' before, it is a system that apparently allows your identity to be confirmed using information on file at a number of 'Private Companies' about you. Now this is promoted by HMRC, if they get positive feedback, they will accept this as proof of your identity.

It is unclear who instigated this system, or if it has anything to do with HMRC.

You are presented with a list of companies and organisations who can do this for you, companies like Royal Mail, several banks, several credit reference agencies and digi info companies.

We choose DIGIDENTITY a company which says once 'Verfied' by them your cyber identity is secure. Do you have a passport? No! driving licence, yes! .... give us all the details. Do you have a current account? .... yes, give us all the details. Do you have another bank account or credit card? ...... er yeah! ..... give us all the details........sorry we can't verify you with the information you have given us, do you have another bank account or credit card? ..... fuck this I tell him, they are 'harvesting all your personal details' so say no, we do, then it tells us to take a photo of yourself and your driving licence and forward it to them. At this point I log it out.

We are referred back to the 'Verify' site which says sorry, HMRC were unable to confirm your identity, Experian says they can help, and we forward to their site. Same MO as the other firm, driving licence, current account. Despite my mate having had a bank account with the same branch for almost 40 years, they say they can't confirm his details. Do you have another bank account? (he does now and is willing to give this up) ...give us all the details......Sorry Nationwide is not part of the 'Verify' scheme, give us the details of your credit card account which starts with the number 4 and ends with the number 2 ...... WTF!! but he says ok, and they want everything down to his closing balance. ....... Sorry we are unable to find details of this account, do you have another credit card from this selection? ..... I tell him to fuck this off, they know the numbers then say they have no record of it? ......this whole thing stinks!

The upshot is, he has now given all this information away for no result using this 'VERIFY' scheme, It is not about you it's these private companies harvesting as much personal information as they can from you.

It's a fucking disgrace that HMRC are promoting this scheme. :shake head:
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Re: A Warning: Beware if asked to 'VERIFY' yourself.

Postby Vam » Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:59 am

I wanna know what happened next! This is better than a soap opera.
EDIT...oops - there it is...off to read...

(jeez - I've missed your posts around here, Traps :gigglesnshit: )
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Re: A Warning: Beware if asked to 'VERIFY' yourself.

Postby megaera » Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:07 am

How certain are you that the original request came from the HMRC? You can sign in to your personal tax account via the government gateway https://www.gov.uk/personal-tax-account but there are loads of scammers using phishing sites.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/money/clever-hm ... ts-9611469
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Re: A Warning: Beware if asked to 'VERIFY' yourself.

Postby Trapper John » Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:27 am

Here's another thing, totally separate from the other business. A week or so ago I wanted to speak to someone at HMRC about taxes on pensions, well I had the devils own job to get a telephone number or even an address for them, but I eventually did.

After hanging on to their 9p per minute minimum phone line, listening to all their twaddle, I answer some automated security questions and am held on the line again.

An automated lady comes on and says that for now and future reference we would like you to record your voice, it will only take a few minutes and will benefit you in all future contact.

It goes on, please speak in your normal every day voice, this voice recognition system can then determine your identity, even if you have a bad cold or disguise your voice, it is as accurate at determining identity as fingerprints are :yikes:

You are then asked to repeat the phrase "My voice is my password" three or four times depending on when they get an accurate recording.

Now I can speak to anyone there without going through the security palaver ......... of course, the government have yet another slice of me as well, to add to the all the rest. :ooer:
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Re: A Warning: Beware if asked to 'VERIFY' yourself.

Postby Trapper John » Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:36 am

megaera wrote:How certain are you that the original request came from the HMRC? You can sign in to your personal tax account via the government gateway https://www.gov.uk/personal-tax-account but there are loads of scammers using phishing sites.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/money/clever-hm ... ts-9611469


Obviously his notice about the rebate came to him by post. I used the above Url to set up his account and in all further communication.

You are then linked directly to the 'Verify' scheme members from the relevent HMRC webpage, and are returned to it afterwards to tell you if you've been 'verified' or not.
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Re: A Warning: Beware if asked to 'VERIFY' yourself.

Postby Nucks » Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:46 am

Trapper John wrote:
megaera wrote:How certain are you that the original request came from the HMRC? You can sign in to your personal tax account via the government gateway https://www.gov.uk/personal-tax-account but there are loads of scammers using phishing sites.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/money/clever-hm ... ts-9611469


Obviously his notice about the rebate came to him by post. I used the above Url to set up his account and in all further communication.

You are then linked directly to the 'Verify' scheme members from the relevent HMRC webpage, and are returned to it afterwards to tell you if you've been 'verified' or not.


I've received a similar letter a couple of weeks ago, indicating I was due a tax rebate/refund. I tried doing their verification process but told they could not verify my identity. My work colleague has no trouble with the system though. I don't hold a UK passport and don't have much in the way of a credit rating here, so I suspect that's why. I wish they'd just add the refund to my next paycheque, I'd be happy with that, as long as it didn't affect my tax rate(bracket), which I doubt it would.

It's not the best system for receiving a refund. The letter indicated I would receive a cheque within 60 days if I didn't sign up with their online system.
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Re: A Warning: Beware if asked to 'VERIFY' yourself.

Postby Vicky » Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:25 pm

Trapper John wrote:
Vicky wrote:I don't know what happened with your pal, but a pal of mine got an email last week about a tax refund and was told all he had to do was put his debit card details in to an account, as they didn't have them on file.

Oh and he was told the email address from HMRC couldn't receive replies for security reasons.


One thing that confusing and unhelpful website does tell you is to ignore anything other than snail mail communication from HMRC. Warnings all over the place.

Yet what I'll say next, flies in the face of all that.


Thanks for posting all that TJ, it certainly worth knowing.
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Re: A Warning: Beware if asked to 'VERIFY' yourself.

Postby Guest » Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:47 pm

The reason they ask for lots of different bank account details is so's they can take any money off you they say you're owing. They can take it out of any account they like & they don't even have to tell you they're dipping into your account.

Please don't put any bank or building society account details into the HMRC verification scam.
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Re: A Warning: Beware if asked to 'VERIFY' yourself.

Postby McAz » Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:45 am

Trapper John wrote:So we're at it again next day.

Now if like me, you have never heard of 'VERIFY' before, it is a system that apparently allows your identity to be confirmed using information on file at a number of 'Private Companies' about you. Now this is promoted by HMRC, if they get positive feedback, they will accept this as proof of your identity.

It is unclear who instigated this system, or if it has anything to do with HMRC.

You are presented with a list of companies and organisations who can do this for you, companies like Royal Mail, several banks, several credit reference agencies and digi info companies.

We choose DIGIDENTITY a company which says once 'Verfied' by them your cyber identity is secure. Do you have a passport? No! driving licence, yes! .... give us all the details. Do you have a current account? .... yes, give us all the details. Do you have another bank account or credit card? ...... er yeah! ..... give us all the details........sorry we can't verify you with the information you have given us, do you have another bank account or credit card? ..... fuck this I tell him, they are 'harvesting all your personal details' so say no, we do, then it tells us to take a photo of yourself and your driving licence and forward it to them. At this point I log it out.

We are referred back to the 'Verify' site which says sorry, HMRC were unable to confirm your identity, Experian says they can help, and we forward to their site. Same MO as the other firm, driving licence, current account. Despite my mate having had a bank account with the same branch for almost 40 years, they say they can't confirm his details. Do you have another bank account? (he does now and is willing to give this up) ...give us all the details......Sorry Nationwide is not part of the 'Verify' scheme, give us the details of your credit card account which starts with the number 4 and ends with the number 2 ...... WTF!! but he says ok, and they want everything down to his closing balance. ....... Sorry we are unable to find details of this account, do you have another credit card from this selection? ..... I tell him to fuck this off, they know the numbers then say they have no record of it? ......this whole thing stinks!

The upshot is, he has now given all this information away for no result using this 'VERIFY' scheme, It is not about you it's these private companies harvesting as much personal information as they can from you.

It's a fucking disgrace that HMRC are promoting this scheme. :shake head:


I just phoned HMRC and while waiting an automated voice ask me to repeat the following phrase 3 times as part of the VERIFY scheme:

"My voice is my password"

I wasn't presented with or asked to do anything else. :dunno:
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Re: A Warning: Beware if asked to 'VERIFY' yourself.

Postby Major » Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:30 pm

I had this a couple of days ago but it added I had a lorryload of money to collect.
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Re: A Warning: Beware if asked to 'VERIFY' yourself.

Postby Guest » Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:26 pm

Major Starbold wrote:I had this a couple of days ago but it added I had a lorryload of money to collect.


don't you ever get tired of your fantasy life?
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