Are those responsible for people's lives paid enough?

[Trapper John]

Who'd wanna be a pilot of an airliner or the captain of a ship eh?......fucking hell, whenever anything goes wrong they make a beeline for your jugular.

Like the captain and co-pilot of the missing Malaysian Plane or the captain of that ferry which sunk the other day - you're on a hiding to nothing whatever you do.....whatever happens you're gonna cop the blame.

Same with train drivers, everyone moves heaven and earth to make sure the poor fucker at the wheel gets the blame, often to hide mistakes or shortcomings of those they are working for.

No-one knows how they'll react in an emergency, no matter how often they are trained in safety matters - once the shit hits the fan - everything you ever learned goes out the window and you do your best in the circumstances at the time. Sometimes it's as if the authorities think the poor buggers have lost passengers lives on purpose.

That ferry captain says he didn't give the order to abandon ship because it wasn't immediately apparent the boat would sink and the sea was freezing cold and whipping up rough.....that seems fair enough to me, yet they want his blood.

If he had have given the order and the boat didn't sink but all those who jumped ship died in the sea, they'd want his blood as well....fuck being in charge of other peoples lives - they don't pay enough.

[miss must]

Nurses aren't paid nearly enough money for the work they do. Especially A&E nurses.

[Cleopatra]

Who'd wanna be a pilot of an airliner or the captain of a ship eh?......fucking hell, whenever anything goes wrong they make a beeline for your jugular.

Like the captain and co-pilot of the missing Malaysian Plane or the captain of that ferry which sunk the other day - you're on a hiding to nothing whatever you do.....whatever happens you're gonna cop the blame.

Same with train drivers, everyone moves heaven and earth to make sure the poor fucker at the wheel gets the blame, often to hide mistakes or shortcomings of those they are working for.

No-one knows how they'll react in an emergency, no matter how often they are trained in safety matters - once the shit hits the fan - everything you ever learned goes out the window and you do your best in the circumstances at the time. Sometimes it's as if the authorities think the poor buggers have lost passengers lives on purpose.

That ferry captain says he didn't give the order to abandon ship because it wasn't immediately apparent the boat would sink and the sea was freezing cold and whipping up rough.....that seems fair enough to me, yet they want his blood.

If he had have given the order and the boat didn't sink but all those who jumped ship died in the sea, they'd want his blood as well....fuck being in charge of other peoples lives - they don't pay enough.

He himself thought it was bad enough for him to abandon ship though. He was one of the first off and one of the first rescued. He chose not to follow the orders being relayed to him from rescuers and also didn't follow proper procedures in the event of an accident. There is a fine line between a mistake and incompetence/negligence and it looks like he crossed it.

If I was the mother of one of those schoolkids I'd want his blood. Or at least proper punishment if it is proven he and his crew abandoned those children to their fate when they could have been saved.

[Cleopatra]

Nurses aren't paid nearly enough money for the work they do. Especially A&E nurses.

I think nurses are paid very well for the job they do. Doctors have the vast bulk of the responsibility. Making nursing a degree was a big mistake in my opinion and is one of the main reasons for the downward spiral of poor care in NHS hospitals over the past 20 years.

[Truthy]

Nurses aren't paid nearly enough money for the work they do. Especially A&E nurses.

I think nurses are paid very well for the job they do. Doctors have the vast bulk of the responsibility. Making nursing a degree was a big mistake in my opinion and is one of the main reasons for the downward spiral of poor care in NHS hospitals over the past 20 years.

They're paid peanuts for what they do. They're at least worth double the pittance they get now

[Guest]

Nurses aren't paid nearly enough money for the work they do. Especially A&E nurses.

I think nurses are paid very well for the job they do. Doctors have the vast bulk of the responsibility. Making nursing a degree was a big mistake in my opinion and is one of the main reasons for the downward spiral of poor care in NHS hospitals over the past 20 years.

Nurses are NOT well paid for what they do and as far as your comments on responsibility are concerned, they have full accountability for their own practice - meaning that if one of them makes a mistake resulting in an adverse outcome for the patient, it is their responsibility and not that of the doctor in charge of that patient.

Whilst I agree with you up to a point about degree nursing, it is now the only real way into the profession and there is no point in bemoaning that fact. There are lots and lots of excellent nurses who have trained via degree courses. The issue is not that nurses do not know how to deliver good care - it is that they are expected to spend inordinate amounts of time on mandatory paperwork and form filling when they would rather be looking after their patients. Since the introduction of so much superfluous paperwork, there was been no noticeable increase in staffing levels to ensure that patient care can still be delivered in accordance with best practice and nurses can usually only spread themselves so far in a busy department.

That said, there are also bad nurses or those who go into nursing for the wrong reasons. One thing is for sure, it is not the profession to go into if you are ambitious for rapid career progression, as such opportunities are scarce and fiercely fought for. Many do not realise how difficult it is to gain promotion in nursing and many nurses leave the profession after only a few years as they are disillusioned.

[Cleopatra]

Nurses aren't paid nearly enough money for the work they do. Especially A&E nurses.

I think nurses are paid very well for the job they do. Doctors have the vast bulk of the responsibility. Making nursing a degree was a big mistake in my opinion and is one of the main reasons for the downward spiral of poor care in NHS hospitals over the past 20 years.

Nurses are NOT well paid for what they do and as far as your comments on responsibility are concerned, they have full accountability for their own practice - meaning that if one of them makes a mistake resulting in an adverse outcome for the patient, it is their responsibility and not that of the doctor in charge of that patient.

Whilst I agree with you up to a point about degree nursing, it is now the only real way into the profession and there is no point in bemoaning that fact. There are lots and lots of excellent nurses who have trained via degree courses. The issue is not that nurses do not know how to deliver good care - it is that they are expected to spend inordinate amounts of time on mandatory paperwork and form filling when they would rather be looking after their patients. Since the introduction of so much superfluous paperwork, there was been no noticeable increase in staffing levels to ensure that patient care can still be delivered in accordance with best practice and nurses can usually only spread themselves so far in a busy department.

That said, there are also bad nurses or those who go into nursing for the wrong reasons. One thing is for sure, it is not the profession to go into if you are ambitious for rapid career progression, as such opportunities are scarce and fiercely fought for. Many do not realise how difficult it is to gain promotion in nursing and many nurses leave the profession after only a few years as they are disillusioned.

I agree that many nurses know how to deliver good care. The problem is that many of them would rather be doing paperwork/sitting at the nursing station, whilst delegating that care to support workers, now renamed healthcare assistants, who have very limited training and it shows in the poor care that is actually delivered to patients, especially the elderly. Limiting the % of support workers and increasing the % of nurses would help to address this. Its healthcare on the cheap leading to poor nursing.

Wrong reasons? People go into nursing for the same reason anyone goes into a job - primarily to earn a living. As for career progression, years ago you had to have years of experience behind you to make Sister. Now, anyone can make Band 6 after a couple of years. In fact there are almost as many band 6's on some wards than 5's which is also part of the problem. Too much delegation and not enough do it yourself.

Yes, there are good nurses, of course there are but the days of the "angels" being paid too little for doing too much are long gone. Even nurses themselves know they get paid well for what they do.

[Guest]

Nurses aren't paid nearly enough money for the work they do. Especially A&E nurses.

I think nurses are paid very well for the job they do. Doctors have the vast bulk of the responsibility. Making nursing a degree was a big mistake in my opinion and is one of the main reasons for the downward spiral of poor care in NHS hospitals over the past 20 years.

Nurses are NOT well paid for what they do and as far as your comments on responsibility are concerned, they have full accountability for their own practice - meaning that if one of them makes a mistake resulting in an adverse outcome for the patient, it is their responsibility and not that of the doctor in charge of that patient.

Whilst I agree with you up to a point about degree nursing, it is now the only real way into the profession and there is no point in bemoaning that fact. There are lots and lots of excellent nurses who have trained via degree courses. The issue is not that nurses do not know how to deliver good care - it is that they are expected to spend inordinate amounts of time on mandatory paperwork and form filling when they would rather be looking after their patients. Since the introduction of so much superfluous paperwork, there was been no noticeable increase in staffing levels to ensure that patient care can still be delivered in accordance with best practice and nurses can usually only spread themselves so far in a busy department.

That said, there are also bad nurses or those who go into nursing for the wrong reasons. One thing is for sure, it is not the profession to go into if you are ambitious for rapid career progression, as such opportunities are scarce and fiercely fought for. Many do not realise how difficult it is to gain promotion in nursing and many nurses leave the profession after only a few years as they are disillusioned.

I agree that many nurses know how to deliver good care. The problem is that many of them would rather be doing paperwork/sitting at the nursing station, whilst delegating that care to support workers, now renamed healthcare assistants, who have very limited training and it shows in the poor care that is actually delivered to patients, especially the elderly. Limiting the % of support workers and increasing the % of nurses would help to address this. Its healthcare on the cheap leading to poor nursing.

Wrong reasons? People go into nursing for the same reason anyone goes into a job - primarily to earn a living. As for career progression, years ago you had to have years of experience behind you to make Sister. Now, anyone can make Band 6 after a couple of years. In fact there are almost as many band 6's on some wards than 5's which is also part of the problem. Too much delegation and not enough do it yourself.

Yes, there are good nurses, of course there are but the days of the "angels" being paid too little for doing too much are long gone. Even nurses themselves know they get paid well for what they do.

How would you know that many nurses "prefer" doing paperwork? It is a necessary evil and most nurses I know would be delighted not to have to sit and plough their way through all that crap every shift and would far rather be with their patients. It is not the fault of nurses that hospital management prefer to employ the cheaper option of HCA's and support workers rather than staff ward and departments appropriately with trained staff.

Bear in mind also that in addition to their patient caseload, trained nurses are also expected to participate in the training and mentorship of student nurses, junior colleagues and the aforementioned HCAs and many also have additional admin and training duties delegated by their ward manager. Many nurses have compulsory overtime shifts imposed upon them,have to skip meal breaks and are expected to stay later on duty if they are needed. I have also known nurses to be phoned up on their days off when there is a staff shortage due to sickness absence.

When wards are understaffed, it ought to be the hospital management who ensure that appropriate duty cover is provided, but in reality it is usually the nurses in that ward who are expected to cover any such shortfalls themselves.

It's hardly surprising that so many nurses are ultimately lost to "burnout".

[calitom]

Nurses aren't paid nearly enough money for the work they do. Especially A&E nurses.

I think nurses are paid very well for the job they do. Doctors have the vast bulk of the responsibility. Making nursing a degree was a big mistake in my opinion and is one of the main reasons for the downward spiral of poor care in NHS hospitals over the past 20 years.

They're paid peanuts for what they do. They're at least worth double the pittance they get now

they make a LOTTA dough in the usa truths. The nurse anesthetists working in my brothers anesthesia group make over 150k/year plus benefits

[Creamola Foam]

if they werent paid enough nobody would do it

we all would take more pay if it was offered


as for pilots, they take off and land, the plane does the rest....way overpaid taxi drivers