17 Dead in school shooting.

[Grafenwalder]

Meantime back at the ranch..how Valentines Day massacre was 'celebrated' by a gun business which the NRA retweeted. They deleted it three hours after the school shooting news.

[Guest]

And there you have your answer, The mentalists can get their hands on weapons.
I read today that the left wing press were rubbing their hands in glee at the thought of laying this at Trumps feet.
One headline was Trump blames shooters school friends for not notifying authorities about him before hand.
But if you think about it Trump is not far wrong.
He must have been acting strange for a while and yet no one thought to tell the cops?
They have a thing over here about not snitching, It's youth thing and nobody wants to be a snitch. So you end up with 17 school mates dead.
Tell me something, If the government turned up at your house one day and said pack up you have one week to move out we want your house.
What would you do? pack up and leave?
Or would you barricade yourself in your house and put up a fight?
I'd imagine you wouldn't just say ok you win I'm off.
Now imagine trying to confiscate 300 odd million firearms from Citizens.
Tell you what when You ban knives and try take the knifes off of your Sikh population. Come back to me and we'll talk then.

Knives, seriously?

Yes seriously stooo, Knives are the go to weapon to murder youths in London black youths by the way. I watched the news last week and they were on about banning knives. Because now most black teenagers are walking around with a knife on them.
So if we jump forward and the government decide they want to ban knives. Do you honestly think Sikhs will be like...oh ok .
I seem to remember they tried to stop Sikh children bringing their knives to school and had to drop it when it was ruled to interfere with their religious rights.
As was said earlier, your child being killed by a knife isn't better than your child being killed by a gun.
I hope the killer lives to very old age.

[Guest]

Meantime back at the ranch..how Valentines Day massacre was 'celebrated' by a gun business which the NRA retweeted. They deleted it three hours after the school shooting news.

Nice...I'd buy them.

[Maddog]

If you are seeing a new, undesired behavior in people, you have to identify the new stimuli that has been introduced to cause this new behavior.

Access hasn't changed, nor have the weapons themselves.

I will admit that use of the AR and its variants has increased even though availability hasn't changed.

I'm in the middle of reading an article and one of its theories (along with political radicalisation, aberrant behaviour and mental health issues) is the "contagion" impact of copycat killings which are highly planned and premeditated. I hadn't really thought of the issue in that way before.

There is almost something intoxicating for some people in terms of grabbing that particular weapon and forcing the world to take notice of them if only for a short period of time.

Outside of the Vegas shooter, these dumb kids don't even know why they are using the AR. Only that the others used it so it must be the best weapon for shooting unarmed people at 10 feet.

[Maddog]

Meantime back at the ranch..how Valentines Day massacre was 'celebrated' by a gun business which the NRA retweeted. They deleted it three hours after the school shooting news.

Nice...I'd buy them.

A Kimber is a fine piece of machinery.

[Guest]

Funny how its always a known 'gun free' zone.

[calitom]

This is being reported in a BS way just like vegas. Kids as witnesses report multiple shooters. AND...the friggin feds ran a surprise evacuation drill at that very school just 2 weeks ago.
One girl was talking to the unarmed Cruz as they were evacuating the building...while she heard shots from another part of the building.
Bizzarro world just like Vegas.
If you think it was this kid alone u r nuts. . There are cameras in every inch of that school. Lets see the friggin video.
What the hell was the army doing there in practically real time of the shootings??? Thats the worlds fastest response time.
One student reported shooters at both sides of a building that were attacked. There are exits at both sides of the building. Students running away from one side
the building to escape turned around fleeing gunshots from the other side.

[Cannydc]

WTF does that even mean ?

Apart from you trying to blame anyone and everyone else for the sad state of affairs that gives mentalists free access (yes, free access) to assault weapons and the ammunition to kill a battalion. Instead of realising that your gun control / complete lack of it is entirely down to the amount of money and votes donated to political parties by those with the very worst motives to lobby - greed.

And there you have your answer, The mentalists can get their hands on weapons.
I read today that the left wing press were rubbing their hands in glee at the thought of laying this at Trumps feet.
One headline was Trump blames shooters school friends for not notifying authorities about him before hand.
But if you think about it Trump is not far wrong.
He must have been acting strange for a while and yet no one thought to tell the cops?
They have a thing over here about not snitching, It's youth thing and nobody wants to be a snitch. So you end up with 17 school mates dead.
Tell me something, If the government turned up at your house one day and said pack up you have one week to move out we want your house.
What would you do? pack up and leave?
Or would you barricade yourself in your house and put up a fight?
I'd imagine you wouldn't just say ok you win I'm off.
Now imagine trying to confiscate 300 odd million firearms from Citizens.
Tell you what when You ban knives and try take the knifes off of your Sikh population. Come back to me and we'll talk then.[/quote]

And yet again you are using falsehoods to cover your arse.

He WAS reported as being a suspect, long before this happened. There are now 'investigations' going on to find out why no action was taken. No doubt, 'lessons will be learned' and everyone will go on as if nothing happened within a week or two.

Honestly, how anyone can justify ownership of ASSAULT WEAPONS (which can kill from hundreds of yards - knives can't) by ordinary citizens beggars all belief.

And pretending that you need an armoury because the government are coming to get your house is simply paranoia on a grand scale.

[Cannydc]

This is being reported in a BS way just like vegas. Kids as witnesses report multiple shooters. AND...the friggin feds ran a surprise evacuation drill at that very school just 2 weeks ago.
One girl was talking to the unarmed Cruz as they were evacuating the building...while she heard shots from another part of the building.
Bizzarro world just like Vegas.
If you think it was this kid alone u r nuts. . There are cameras in every inch of that school. Lets see the friggin video.
What the hell was the army doing there in practically real time of the shootings??? Thats the worlds fastest response time.
One student reported shooters at both sides of a building that were attacked. There are exits at both sides of the building. Students running away from one side
the building to escape turned around fleeing gunshots from the other side.

You love this CT bullshit, don't you ?

Kids were actually heading out of BOTH exits, but a caretaker turned many back from one, because THAT WAS WHERE THE GUNMAN WAS. He saved many lives.

And have you heard something that no-one else - that police are LOOKING FOR A SECOND SHOOTER ?

Of course not.

Because there isn't one.

[Guest]

WTF does that even mean ?

Apart from you trying to blame anyone and everyone else for the sad state of affairs that gives mentalists free access (yes, free access) to assault weapons and the ammunition to kill a battalion. Instead of realising that your gun control / complete lack of it is entirely down to the amount of money and votes donated to political parties by those with the very worst motives to lobby - greed.

And there you have your answer, The mentalists can get their hands on weapons.
I read today that the left wing press were rubbing their hands in glee at the thought of laying this at Trumps feet.
One headline was Trump blames shooters school friends for not notifying authorities about him before hand.
But if you think about it Trump is not far wrong.
He must have been acting strange for a while and yet no one thought to tell the cops?
They have a thing over here about not snitching, It's youth thing and nobody wants to be a snitch. So you end up with 17 school mates dead.
Tell me something, If the government turned up at your house one day and said pack up you have one week to move out we want your house.
What would you do? pack up and leave?
Or would you barricade yourself in your house and put up a fight?
I'd imagine you wouldn't just say ok you win I'm off.
Now imagine trying to confiscate 300 odd million firearms from Citizens.
Tell you what when You ban knives and try take the knifes off of your Sikh population. Come back to me and we'll talk then.

And yet again you are using falsehoods to cover your arse.

He WAS reported as being a suspect, long before this happened. There are now 'investigations' going on to find out why no action was taken. No doubt, 'lessons will be learned' and everyone will go on as if nothing happened within a week or two.

Honestly, how anyone can justify ownership of ASSAULT WEAPONS (which can kill from hundreds of yards - knives can't) by ordinary citizens beggars all belief.

And pretending that you need an armoury because the government are coming to get your house is simply paranoia on a grand scale.[/quote]

He also watches Fox News.
They ran this fake news story about most black youths in London carrying knives.
Even the 0.21% is too much but that percentage (Met Police) is nowhere near the 51% that is most.

[Guest]

This is being reported in a BS way just like vegas. Kids as witnesses report multiple shooters. AND...the friggin feds ran a surprise evacuation drill at that very school just 2 weeks ago.
One girl was talking to the unarmed Cruz as they were evacuating the building...while she heard shots from another part of the building.
Bizzarro world just like Vegas.
If you think it was this kid alone u r nuts. . There are cameras in every inch of that school. Lets see the friggin video.
What the hell was the army doing there in practically real time of the shootings??? Thats the worlds fastest response time.
One student reported shooters at both sides of a building that were attacked. There are exits at both sides of the building. Students running away from one side
the building to escape turned around fleeing gunshots from the other side.

Only on Fasctard Far right sites are there reports of multiple shooters.
No one was speaking to the "unarmed" shooter.
It is made up shit.
The incident was ongoing for hours, which is enough time for the local base to appear.
Of course of a shooter moves through the school it will seem like there are two shooters because the shots are fired from different places.
He set off timed smoke bombs, thus making students run towards him.
You have no critical thought process in your brain, do you?
Did you vote for Trump and GWB as well?
My guess is a resounding yeah yeehaw!!!!

[Keyser]

This is being reported in a BS way just like vegas. Kids as witnesses report multiple shooters. AND...the friggin feds ran a surprise evacuation drill at that very school just 2 weeks ago.
One girl was talking to the unarmed Cruz as they were evacuating the building...while she heard shots from another part of the building.
Bizzarro world just like Vegas.
If you think it was this kid alone u r nuts. . There are cameras in every inch of that school. Lets see the friggin video.
What the hell was the army doing there in practically real time of the shootings??? Thats the worlds fastest response time.
One student reported shooters at both sides of a building that were attacked. There are exits at both sides of the building. Students running away from one side
the building to escape turned around fleeing gunshots from the other side.

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[Avon Barksdale]

It's Britain's fault?

Aus restricted gun ownership after Port Arthur and we did after Dunblaine. It didn't cause any sort of issue other than not having schools, pubs, anywhere where people meet up being shot to shit. It's not about social and economic issues at this level, it's about the availability of machines made to kill in the quickest way possible to anyone at all.

If someone is intent on killing though they will find a method of doing so though. We've seen that here with acts of terrorism involving motor vehicles. A gun is a tool so don't we ask why someone wishes to use it?

I don't buy the argument that is solely an availability issue and while of course drawing lessons from Australia will be useful they don't necessarily have the same social issues such as the use of opiates for example.

It's me again the New yorker, I own firearms Some for fun some hunting and some for protection.
I've had my license for different firearms for roughly 17 years. I had to go through a myriad of hassle to get a side arm. I was given one which is extremely hard to get within city limits because I put forward a good case to own one.
I can make a few phone calls on a throw away phone and buy any firearm I want with Ammunition . I can do this within The NY city limits. If I go upstate it becomes even easier to get weapons.
I used to live in the South West of England, I haven't visited there for several years. But I can guarantee you I can step off the plane and make my way to Bristol make a call and get picked up and driven to a bar where I would meet a man who could get what I wanted within an hour.

Right, and if these are highly motivated individuals who sometimes spend years planning these attacks they will find a way to achieve their aims and obtain the firearms they need to do so.

I've moved on to an article referencing a researcher specialising in gun violence at Johns Hopkins University’s Bloomberg School of Public Health stating that "political, cultural and legal challenges" make it highly unlikely that the US could replicate Australia's approach but it doesn't specify exactly what those challenges are which makes me a little wary given the quality of some reporting.

You have no idea what those challenges are? FFS

http://cloudfront.mediamattersaction.org/static/images/NRAtoRschart2.jpg

No, what I meant was that while the research and the challenges mentioned they were not directly quoted from the actual research I didn't want to assume what they were on the basis of the reporting alone. Depending on the bias of the news outlet concerned a distorted impression can be given which lacks context so I prefer, if possible, to look at the source material so I can make up my own mind.

And yes, gun lobbying was listed in the original study which I skimmed as were constitutional law challenges and an ingrained culture of gun ownership which means that significant change to gun control laws along the lines of Australia wasn't seen to be a realistic option for the US.

[Guest]

Remove the ability for the NRA to fund Republicans.

[Avon Barksdale]

If you are seeing a new, undesired behavior in people, you have to identify the new stimuli that has been introduced to cause this new behavior.

Access hasn't changed, nor have the weapons themselves.

I will admit that use of the AR and its variants has increased even though availability hasn't changed.

I'm in the middle of reading an article and one of its theories (along with political radicalisation, aberrant behaviour and mental health issues) is the "contagion" impact of copycat killings which are highly planned and premeditated. I hadn't really thought of the issue in that way before.

There is almost something intoxicating for some people in terms of grabbing that particular weapon and forcing the world to take notice of them if only for a short period of time.

Outside of the Vegas shooter, these dumb kids don't even know why they are using the AR. Only that the others used it so it must be the best weapon for shooting unarmed people at 10 feet.

Yeah, it is like some of these kids live in an alternative plane of existence where their real world actions aren't firmly anchored to the picture of the world they see in their heads.

From what I can gather from the killer's profile it seems to fit the pattern of radicalisation - training with a white supremacist group, socially isolated, traumatic life events including a bereavement, increasing escalation of aberrant behaviour over time and obssession with guns and knives and so on.

It seems that reducing overall gun ownership could help but it's not the whole picture. Your country's kids are killing each other at a rate of knots with guns, ours with knives. What is going on with some of our young people, especially men and how do we improve that?