Terrorist attack in Finsbury Park

[Holly]

MacAz wrote

Most recent terrorist acts in the UK were committed by people who were sympathetic to but not members of one extreme organistaion or another.

Well then...the guest replying to me to educate me about terrorism ...(coz I said that guy today wasn't a member of any terrorist organisation) begs to differ.

He doesn't differ - a terrorist is someone who commits an act of terrorism as defined in law.

That's all I said ..I don't think that guy belongs to any terror organisation or sympathises with any. I think he was misguided by his hate and frustration for what's been going on lately. The terrorists responsible for the latest attacks, however either belong to, or like you said, sympathise with some Islamic groups.

This murderer sympathises with Islamophobic cause - and he committed an act of terrorism - he is therefore a terrorist. Incidently, Thomas Mair invoked "Britain First" though not actually being a member apparently - same difference.

Kind of far fetched tbh...I doubt very much that people have to be scared to go to mass gatherings for fear of people like him. Maybe I'm wrong, but I do believe this was an isolated attack. Time will tell I suppose.

[McAz]

This murderer sympathises with Islamophobic cause - and he committed an act of terrorism - he is therefore a terrorist. Incidently, Thomas Mair invoked "Britain First" though not actually being a member apparently - same difference.

Kind of far fetched tbh...I doubt very much that people have to be scared to go to mass gatherings for fear of people like him. Maybe I'm wrong, but I do believe this was an isolated attack. Time will tell I suppose.

Time doesn't need to tell - he drove into a group of Muslims shouting "I want to kill all Muslims" - surely even the most avid far-right apologist must concede that he supports Islamophobic causes?

[wutang]

Incidentally, whether this terrorist had a mental illness or not is not particularly relevant unless it completely diminishes his capacity to make decisions / takes away human agency (which is unlikely.)

It's like mental illness is used as a convenient excuse or justification for actions which cannot be excused or justified. This type of intellectually lazy thinking spans the political spectrum.

Didnt Brevik try playing that card and the courts threw it out.

The other problematic thing with the whole 'lets downplay white terrorism with mental illness' thing is that it stigmatises and demonises people with mental illness - millions of people suffer from some form but you dont see them committing terror acts.

Then again the media love demonising mental illness as well so it two birds with one stone for them.

[McAz]

Incidentally, whether this terrorist had a mental illness or not is not particularly relevant unless it completely diminishes his capacity to make decisions / takes away human agency (which is unlikely.)

It's like mental illness is used as a convenient excuse or justification for actions which cannot be excused or justified. This type of intellectually lazy thinking spans the political spectrum.

Didnt Brevik try playing that card and the courts threw it out.

The other problematic thing with the whole 'lets downplay white terrorism with mental illness' thing is that it stigmatises and demonises people with mental illness - millions of people suffer from some form but you dont see them committing terror acts.

Then again the media love demonising mental illness as well so it two birds with one stone for them.

Of course, but since when do the right care who they stigmatize - some even suggested that Grenfell was the resident's fault.

[Avon Barksdale]

The other problematic thing with the whole 'lets downplay white terrorism with mental illness' thing is that it stigmatises and demonises people with mental illness - millions of people suffer from some form but you dont see them committing terror acts.

Exactly.

[Puzzler]

Incidentally, whether this terrorist had a mental illness or not is not particularly relevant unless it completely diminishes his capacity to make decisions / takes away human agency (which is unlikely.)

It's like mental illness is used as a convenient excuse or justification for actions which cannot be excused or justified. This type of intellectually lazy thinking spans the political spectrum.

Didnt Brevik try playing that card and the courts threw it out.

The other problematic thing with the whole 'lets downplay white terrorism with mental illness' thing is that it stigmatises and demonises people with mental illness - millions of people suffer from some form but you dont see them committing terror acts.

Then again the media love demonising mental illness as well so it two birds with one stone for them.

Ah yes I remember well, Richard Dart and Samantha Lewthwaite's actions being explained away as a result of mental illness.

[McAz]

Incidentally, whether this terrorist had a mental illness or not is not particularly relevant unless it completely diminishes his capacity to make decisions / takes away human agency (which is unlikely.)

It's like mental illness is used as a convenient excuse or justification for actions which cannot be excused or justified. This type of intellectually lazy thinking spans the political spectrum.

Didnt Brevik try playing that card and the courts threw it out.

The other problematic thing with the whole 'lets downplay white terrorism with mental illness' thing is that it stigmatises and demonises people with mental illness - millions of people suffer from some form but you dont see them committing terror acts.

Then again the media love demonising mental illness as well so it two birds with one stone for them.

Ah yes I remember well, Richard Dart and Samantha Lewthwaite's actions being explained away as a result of mental illness.

By whom?

[Holly]

This murderer sympathises with Islamophobic cause - and he committed an act of terrorism - he is therefore a terrorist. Incidently, Thomas Mair invoked "Britain First" though not actually being a member apparently - same difference.

Kind of far fetched tbh...I doubt very much that people have to be scared to go to mass gatherings for fear of people like him. Maybe I'm wrong, but I do believe this was an isolated attack. Time will tell I suppose.

Time doesn't need to tell - he drove into a group of Muslims shouting "I want to kill all Muslims" - surely even the most avid far-right apologist must concede that he supports Islamophobic causes?

Yes he did and yes it was totally wrong, I do not condone this shit... but I do believe it was an isolated incident. Why are you hammering on about this and yet didn't really make a big fuss about all the horrible attacks of lately where so many people were killed?

[McAz]

This murderer sympathises with Islamophobic cause - and he committed an act of terrorism - he is therefore a terrorist. Incidently, Thomas Mair invoked "Britain First" though not actually being a member apparently - same difference.

Kind of far fetched tbh...I doubt very much that people have to be scared to go to mass gatherings for fear of people like him. Maybe I'm wrong, but I do believe this was an isolated attack. Time will tell I suppose.

Time doesn't need to tell - he drove into a group of Muslims shouting "I want to kill all Muslims" - surely even the most avid far-right apologist must concede that he supports Islamophobic causes?

Yes he did and yes it was totally wrong, I do not condone this shit... but I do believe it was an isolated incident. Why are you hammering on about it and yet didn't really make a big fuss about all the horrible attacks of lately where so many people were killed?

I'm not hammering on about anything - you called me out, I responded - don't complain now.

And I don't make a fuss about anything much - I consistently counsel non-violence and moderation - I can't help that people have a problem with that.

[Vam]

And as a side note: No doubt you've noticed the Tories bigging this up as a very opportune deflection from Grenfell.

You had to shoehorn 'the Tories' in somewhere didn't you?

How are they 'bigging it up' and how does it deflect from Grenfell? It's a totally separate unconnected incident.

Read the news - Grenfell wasn't going well for them.

I doubt Grenfell has been going well for anyone affected.

As far as deflection attempts go, Az, I really have to say that ^^^ is cynically exploitative, and really scrapes the barrel. I expect that kind of whataboutery from the usual great unwashed fuckwit suspects around here, but not from you

[Puzzler]

White people cant possibly be muslim terrorists of course. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -ISIS.html

[McAz]

And as a side note: No doubt you've noticed the Tories bigging this up as a very opportune deflection from Grenfell.

You had to shoehorn 'the Tories' in somewhere didn't you?

How are they 'bigging it up' and how does it deflect from Grenfell? It's a totally separate unconnected incident.

Read the news - Grenfell wasn't going well for them.

I doubt Grenfell has been going well for anyone affected.

As far as deflection attempts go, Az, I really have to say that ^^^ is cynically exploitative, and really scrapes the barrel. I expect that kind of whataboutery from the usual great unwashed fuckwit suspects around here, but not from you

Certainly wasn't going well for the Tories - their press office must have been positively salivating when this incident happened.

[Holly]

This murderer sympathises with Islamophobic cause - and he committed an act of terrorism - he is therefore a terrorist. Incidently, Thomas Mair invoked "Britain First" though not actually being a member apparently - same difference.

Kind of far fetched tbh...I doubt very much that people have to be scared to go to mass gatherings for fear of people like him. Maybe I'm wrong, but I do believe this was an isolated attack. Time will tell I suppose.

Time doesn't need to tell - he drove into a group of Muslims shouting "I want to kill all Muslims" - surely even the most avid far-right apologist must concede that he supports Islamophobic causes?

Yes he did and yes it was totally wrong, I do not condone this shit... but I do believe it was an isolated incident. Why are you hammering on about it and yet didn't really make a big fuss about all the horrible attacks of lately where so many people were killed?

I'm not hammering on about anything - you called me out, I responded - don't complain now.

Who is complaining? I asked you a simple question. There's ONE freakn idiot who did what he did for what ever his reason was and you go on and on about Islamophobia, yet I don't recall you making such a fuss about all the innocent Brits including children who got killed in the latest terror attacks in the name of Allah. You sure you got your priorities right?

[Puzzler]

Incidentally, whether this terrorist had a mental illness or not is not particularly relevant unless it completely diminishes his capacity to make decisions / takes away human agency (which is unlikely.)

It's like mental illness is used as a convenient excuse or justification for actions which cannot be excused or justified. This type of intellectually lazy thinking spans the political spectrum.

Didnt Brevik try playing that card and the courts threw it out.

The other problematic thing with the whole 'lets downplay white terrorism with mental illness' thing is that it stigmatises and demonises people with mental illness - millions of people suffer from some form but you dont see them committing terror acts.

Then again the media love demonising mental illness as well so it two birds with one stone for them.

Ah yes I remember well, Richard Dart and Samantha Lewthwaite's actions being explained away as a result of mental illness.

By whom?

That's my point - they weren't therefore not all white terrorists are classed as mentally ill. Wutang is just desperate for this to be a race issue when there could just as easily been a white muslim or 2 in the crowd of victims last night.

[McAz]

ho is complaining? I asked you a simple question. There's ONE freakn idiot who did what he did for what ever his reason was and you go on and on about Islamophobia, yet I don't recall you making such a fuss about all the innocent Brits including children who got killed in the latest terror attacks in the name of Allah. You sure you got your priorities right?

As I said earlier - I don't make a fuss about anything much - I consistently counsel non-violence and moderation - I can't help that people have a problem with that.